I can see how electric vehicles might be misleading in terms of how "green" they are... BUT mile-per-mile there are many sources that show EV's are still better for the environment than gas powered cars. 

The point is that for the first 8 years, most are not in terms of CO2 emissions. After 8 years, they are better.  At some point, when there are no gas powered cars left (sooner the better), we'll all be better off.

Quite frankly I do not believe it. An ICE has around 2500 moving parts in the drive train compared to around 250 for an EV. Where can I see the full report, because without seeing their numbers I would take it with a grain of salt. The truth is that western analysts have very little knowledge of new energy because the Chinese are beating the world at it and they never get to see it.

They may not know for example that around 20,000t of lithium will be recovered this year from recycling and expected to grow to 50,000t by 2020. Or how much the air quality has improved in Shenzhen where all buses are now electric and 60% of taxis (100% by 2020). Which pollution are they talking about? General air pollution or roadside pollution. Recharging from coal fired power stations or solar and wind.

The transition to new energy will never be as good at the start but I trust little research such as this and wonder also where funding comes from.

Full report and who provided funding and I'd be happy to look through it

https://twitter.com/LithiumWorld

The article states it's in the manufacturing process.  But, for your concern, here is a breakdown on why they aren't green from one of several online sources that also apparently sites other sources.  Just possibly, EVs are less brown.

https://www.masterresource.org/electric-vehicles/evs-co2-rethink/

Thanks Kelly for the link although it tells us very little. For example hey talk a lot about the manufacturing cost of an EV but where are the comparison tables of an ICE? Are they comparing a Tesla S to a Ferrari or small city ICE? Interesting as performance is similar. Where are their tables showing how they arrived at such a wondrous conclusion.

In addition they mention battery recycling and that they have no figures which makes me wonder where their grab samples of data came from. The Chinese will recycle 20,000 tons of lithium this year building to 50,000 by 2020 while the west is talking as though it's not something happening now and sure to be fully implemented in the future.

I can only conclude from the missing information that the whole report is a nonsense. Directly comparing the manufacture of an ICE with an EV and then tracking the first 10 years with supporting comparison data is the only way such reports should be taken seriously. What I see is a comparison of the final figures for building an EV only. Where is the rest of the data?

A report on EV's can never be taken in isolation. An EV is just one part of a revolution in new energy. In the beginning it will always take time to see the full benefit  That is true of any disruptive technology and you can be very sure that this is what we're seeing. How much would the first P.C pollute with a 20MB hard drive compared to a P.C today with 1TB if we factored in pollution per storage size? You simply cannot take a single snapshot without looking at the whole story.

What I can tell you is that all batteries will be recycled by around 2025 and that cities like Shenzhen have had dramatic drops in roadside and general air pollution. That is not just a result of E-Buses and E-Taxis but a holistic approach to pollution.
 

 WTS, It's obvious that building  ICEs pollute far worse than simple EVs when you take into consideration every aspect of the technology including oil drilling to provide the fuel. The study does leave out a lot of crucial data sets, but even with that staggering data missing, one can safely assume that the report stands with some credibility, EVs aren't as green as we've been led to believe which for the public, is based on just emission perceptions.  I think we're on the same page, but I don't believe EVs are environmentally friendly. 

Regarding Chinese recycling, which for all intents and purposes is promising, it's unlikely to be duplicated by the US by 2025 without mandates or financial incentives (that's how we roll). I'd even hazard a guess that the Chinese number isn't reliable because it's a governmental figure and compliance for them to any environmental agreements that may be in play are largely as gassy as the garbage that belches out of their factories.  The ultimate solution seems to be develop smaller batteries.  I for one favor solar.

Thanks for your reply. I don't really get that EV's are not as green as we've led to believe. With so much missing data and the authors having no idea on recycling I don't trust their figures at all. Also, without a direct comparison to ICE on equal terms how do we judge how green EV's are?  To me it's a nonsense headline grab with no substance behind it.

Chinese recycling is not just promising, it's happening now and the authors obviously had no idea. While breakthrough's are also happening in the U.S it doesn't matter if they are successful because the Chinese would open up shop there. No, it is not a government figure. We talk to some of the highest levels in China industry and research and it's from the horses mouth. 

There is one point I take exception to in your reply. Let me state first of all that I have lived in China many years but I do not see it all through rose coloured glasses but warts and all. The comment on filthy smoke belching out of their factories could have been Europe or America in the past. The fact is that we have clean air in the west because we "exported" our pollution and love for things we don't need to China. We are the consumers and they take our manufacturing mess. So, I don't think we have a right to point the dirty finger at China. If you can fully understand the environmental changes happening right now in China they are just mind blowing. In addition they are shutting polluting industries down at a staggering rate. Clean up or get out is the message and this time they are serious and leading the world in new energy. It's great for me because we are consultants to miners wishing to sell to China where they are shutting local mines at a fast pace. Good to see that they have now banned slag and plastic imports. Before they not only made our stuff but helped clean up our mess afterwards

The two pictures are not relevant to me. Mines look dirty but should never stay that way. You could post a rehabilitated mine site too. Your photos are bit like looking at a pretty horrible pimple compared to lung cancer. It's not always about what you see. 

In closing, no, EV's are not perfect yet but they are part of what has been described as the third industrial revolution and it's very early days. There were around 1 billion people in the year 1900. Fast track 120 years we have over 7 billion and each probably pollutes about 50 times more. That is not sustainable unless everyone grasps the changes. We don't have a right to live a great life and leave a garbage tip to our kids.

I hope you're right.  I've been to China on a few occasions and saw incredible advancement such as you suggest.  They seemed to be 10-20 years ahead of us on many levels.  I've also manufactured there on at least 10 occasions and my experience with them has been pretty good overall. Still, it remains to be seen how clean they get things because right now, at this very moment...the air quality is easily the worst on the planet...not even close. For them, cleaning up is a survival issue, not ethical.  Here's a real-time snapshot of Chinese and American air. Ground contamination and water pollution is probably even worse than their air.  It's about time that gov't did something, and if they succeed in cleaning up the environment...they truly will own this century.

Yes, I agree. They have a long way to go.

How would the map look if we moved all the manufacturing of products made in china for Americans back again. The fact is that in the west we have clean air because they make our stuff. Their choice I know but they have lifted 500M+ out of poverty in a generation.

Their is a lot to be done but I can assure you that they are very serious "this time" on environmental issues. Already 100,00 electric buses running around China which is pretty amazing. The environment and new energy is now the number 1 priority of the CCP and let's hope it stays that way. It's not all about lofty ideas, the Chinese failed at vehicle exports previously and they will not miss this chance. They almost exclusively control the battery cell market now and see this as their big chance with all the upstream advantages they'll get.

We are side tracking but my first point is how misleading their opening headline of the article was. I hope everyone embraces what has to be done for the future. It's not perfect but we're moving fast now and it means everyone embracing it. Consuming less and moving to new energy with optimism even though we don''t have it all perfect yet.

All the best Kelly and have enjoyed the discussion... 

We're on the same page, except for the suggestion of a misleading title of course. Keep in mind, I'm a solar power guy. Are you British by any chance?  

Hi Kelly No, I'm Australian and we are about the worst users of EV's mostly due to range anxiety I guess.

EV's not green and not even close?

Well I didn't see them produce any argument for that but then we are a bit weird down here.